Superman 2025: A Trailer Drops

I think this Krypto movie will have Superman in it

You can follow our posts on Superman at this link, and our posts on the new movie, Superman (2025) at this link.

Firstly, I meant to spend any Super-writing time this week on discussing Elizabeth Tulloch as our Lois Lane on the recently completed TV series Superman and Lois.  But I guess I'm punting on that 'til we're done talking the trailer for Superman.  Suffice to say, my discussion of Tulloch will be a deeply positive one, so just... insert that in your brain for now.

As is evidenced by now, WB, DC and the popular movie community has lost its collective mind over the Superman trailer, happily following the marketing breadcrumbs along the way.  This isn't a criticism.  Movies stopped advertising during the covid-era, and I have no @#$%ing idea why they did that.  You need to advertise to get people excited.  Wicked advertised and is doing swell.

We knew Gunn had been working on a trailer and it would come out this winter.  I thought it would come out for The Big Game, but... I think they wanted it out there for NCAA football game commercial breaks as we head into Conference Championships (SEC is this Saturday), and then bowl games.  

The timeline, as near as I can tell, is that around end of October or early November, actor Frank Grillo said he'd seen the trailer for Superman 2025 and loved it.  

Rumors abounded we'd see a trailer in December, but the internet is full of all kinds of non-facts, and so I was in a wait and see mode.  Then - I saw that they were holding a showing of the trailer on the WB studio theater on Monday, and said "oh, I guess... maybe?  For Christmas?"  

What I didn't anticipate was that WB re-awakened their mostly dormant hype-machine and went into full-court-press.  It seems obvious now.

Super Watch: Superman and Lois Season 4 - End of Series

It's been a wild ride with two of my favorite fictional people, Superman and Lois Lane, over there on the CW.  

Ever since DC television introduced Tyler Hoechlin as Superman on their Supergirl show, and eventually brought in Elizabeth "Bitsie" Tulloch as Lois, CW kinda/ sorta had to figure out how to make a Superman television program.  And, indeed they did.

As DC wrapped up the "Arrowverse", it was decreed that the coming Superman and Lois show would have nothing to do with that universe, and we'd see a stand-alone Superman.  No Arrow, Supergirl, Black Lightning, Flash, etc...*  For the time being, it would be pure Superman.  And with comics going back to the 1930's, that was plenty, for me.

• Casting Lois News
• The Pilot discussion
• Second Episode discussion
• Post Season 1 Wrap-Up
• Post Season 2 Wrap-Up
• Apparently I didn't write up Season 3?

Ownership of the CW changed mid-production for the show, and I think it did have some impact on DC's willingness to bother with the CW.  I won't go into the politics, but there is no way it didn't have an impact on the show as Nat was portrayed for the first time in media as straight, and the bisexual storyline for another character was never mentioned again.

The clock was ticking on the show once WB put all of DC's motion-media in James Gunn's hands, and *everything*  (minus The Batman and the flop that was Joker 2) would be part of a coherent, single universe.  TV, cartoons, movies, flipbooks...  I can understand WB's desire to give Gunn a clean slate to work with as he brings his vision for Superman to the big screen, and there were always going to be casualties of things I liked.**  

SPOILERS

Superman 2025: Krypto, The Superdog

You can follow our posts on Superman at this link, and our posts on the new movie, Superman (2025) at this link.

Today, James Gunn announced that, yes - after a year of playing hide-the-ball with the issue - Superman's canine companion, Krypto, will appear in 2025's Superman.  

Full disclosure - a full subset of my Super comics and paraphernalia collection is Krypto-related.  My house is littered with white dogs in capes.  There's like 7 of them in the room I'm in right now.  I am also a grown man who spends 45% of his waking time talking to a 128 pound dog with zero manners.

If you think a Super Dog is a dumb thing and superheroes can't have pets... I would like to introduce you to DC Comics' longstanding tradition of Super-Pets and related animals.  Krypto was a mid-1950's addition to the Superman canon, showing up less than twenty years after Superman first showed up in 1938.  But after the insertion of Rex the Wonder-Dog into DC's world of action-adventure, sometimes in military comics.  Batman has Ace the Bathound.  Wonder Woman has had a variety of pals, but Jumpa, her kangaroo, is probably most famous for nerds.  Robin has a Batcow.  Here's an encyclopedia of them.

It's important to remember that one of the biggest stars in movies through the late 1920's was Rin-Tin-Tin, a German Shepard. Rin-Tin-Tin and Lassie enjoyed stardom in movies and television through the 1990's.  Dogs as characters just wasn't a weird idea to people in media.  And especially when you're trying to rope in a younger audience, as comics were intended through the 1980's.

Superman 2025: Jimmy Olsen and the Many Media of the Man of Steel

Superman 2025's Jimmy Olsen, Skyler Gisondo

You can follow our posts on Superman at this link, and our posts on the new movie, Superman (2025) at this link.

On August 25th, writer and director of Superman, James Gunn, celebrated the creation of James Bartholomew Olsen with a picture of actor Skyler Gisondo in costume, playing Superman's Pal.  He also included an image that is very, very early Jimmy Olsen, written by Siegel, drawn by Shuster.  

Jimmy really existed as a background character, mostly nameless, at the Daily Star and Planet (so I don't really know how they came up with the specific "first appearance" but whatever).  It would be the radio show that pushed Jimmy as a featured player in Superman's world.  

Actor Jackie Kelk would provide the first voice for Jimmy, making sure that Clark/ Superman would have a conversationalist who wasn't his boss or Lois.  On the show, Jimmy cemented his role as the eager kid on the learning curve who, like Lois, was constantly stumbling into danger.  

Tommy Bond played Jimmy in the original serials, but the one who kind of *made* Jimmy was Jack Larson.  His Jimmy was an eternal 18 year old who acted 10, making the bow tie and a sweater vest or jacket his signature look  - something Jimmy still sports these days as a sort of hipster.  

The character was so popular with kids, we wound up with a comic series that ran for 20 years, Superman's Pal, Jimmy Olsen.  And if you want to see how a comic book series can change drastically over two decades, check in with that comic and Superman's Girlfriend, Lois Lane.  (Especially Lois Lane, to see the changes in attitudes about women and their place in culture and the newsroom.)  

Super Watch: "Superman: The Movie" (1978) in San Antonio w/ NathanC

Tollin, NathanC and yours truly

Watched:  07/02/2024

Format:  Theatrical/ Santikos/ TPR Cinema Tuesdays

Viewing:  Unknown

Director:  Richard Donner

For years, our own NathanC (the famed Nathan Cone of Texas Public Radio/ TPR's Cinema Tuesdays) has been trying to secure a print or digital copy of Superman: The Movie to include in the annual summer classics film series he hosts via TPR.   

Travel and other challenges have beset our ability to pull this off, but this year the stars aligned and Nathan was able to get WB to send a copy.  On July 2nd, 2024, I was able to attend the screening and help out.  Nathan asked that I help intro the film, and then stay for a Q&A.  You can visit the Q&A as both audio and transcript here on the TRP website.

Unsurprising to me is that Nathan is a great host; professional but warm and fun.  Clearly the crowd that came out is enthusiastic - they were there a good hour before curtain and buzzing.  The Santikos theater in Northwest San Antonio was nicely appointed and had primo seats with nice side tables for popcorn and - for me - to quickly jot some notes.

I was incredibly nervous about the Q&A as (a) I have a tendency to over-answer any given question, and (b) I was concerned I would not be able to answer a question thrown my way.  

Prior to showing up, Nathan mentioned that a former DC Comics staffer, Anthony Tollin, was going to be in attendance.  Anthony was at DC during a fascinating period of transition, when the original old guard was silver-haired but still around and the next generation was coming in and bringing new ideas to comics.  Folks like Kirby were mailing in work, but working for DC, you might see Siegel and Shuster come into the office.  He knew Julie Schwartz!  He colored Gil Kane!

To someone like me, this is like finding out that you're going to be talking to Gene Kranz or an equivalent.  Especially when I found out Mr. Tollin had been assigned to Christopher Reeve to shepherd him around DC Comics when Reeve came in to do some research.  

I couldn't help it, so I jumped the gun and immediately included Mr. Tollin in the Q&A, and, after, I asked him to sign some comics which he'd worked on.  As a side-note, Mr. Tollin also works on The Shadow novella reprint collections and has written a lot of those Smithsonian mini-books you may have seen associated with CD releases of radio programs.

As a point of Mr. Tollin being kinda extra cool, if you look at the first picture, he's wearing the rings worn by The Phantom in the comic strips.

The questions were insightful and on a level interested in narrative more than the technical achievements of the film - and maybe that worked well for me.  I have *thoughts* on Superman, and I think I was able to answer folks' queries - and loved one woman's questions about the nature of our secret heroism.  I wanted to high-five her so bad.

Anyway, thanks to Nathan and Texas Public Radio for such a great night.  And to Mr. Tollin for showing patience with a fanboy.  Oh, and I got to see San Antonio-based pal, Courtney M!  Always a delight.

Depending on a few factors, I really want to slip down to San Antonio for the screening of Pandora's Box starring Louise Brooks.  

Superman 2025: A Whole New World - And A Pre-Populated DCU

You can follow our posts on Superman at this link, and our posts on the new movie, Superman (2025) at this link.

This week, set-photos started trickling out onto the internet from the shooting locations for Superman (2025).  

Reactions have been fairly enthusiastic from the Super-folk I've seen online, with some notable exceptions (you know who you are).  Rather than the somber, "getting ready for work before the sun comes up" look we initially saw, we're getting David Corenswet's Kal-El in his four-color glory.  

Yeah, they did the trunks, and they let Superman's colors *pop*.  No more somber tones.  I'll hide the rest of the pics below "Read More" for the folks trying to avoid spoilers.

TL;DR: Six Months Later - DC Movies are Dead (Long Live DC Comics and Movies)

Friends.  Nerds.  Blogger-folk.  Lend me your eyeballs.

I come here to bury the DCEU, not to praise it.  

I love DC Comics.  I have a collection of around 5500 DC Comics - and that's what remains after multiple cullings of the collection over the years, selling off dozens of long boxes and whole runs of JLA, The Flash and Green Lantern.  I have a room in my house largely dedicated to Superman and Wonder Woman, featuring knick-knacks, statues and toys, where I keep those comic books.  I have walls of graphic novels, and DC reference books.  My dog wears a Superman collar sometimes (he's currently wearing a Chicago Cubs collar).  I have attended the Superman Celebration in Metropolis, Illinois.  If there is a DC based TV series, serial, movie, cartoon, etc...  there's a good probability I've seen it or have a functioning awareness of it (not everything is for me and I've passed on a lot of animated features the past decade).  

All this is to say, when I discuss DC's movie efforts, it's from a place of love of the source material, of other DC media, and that I'm not coming in as a film-guy who never lifted a comic.  

None of this is to require anyone else to have this background, and you're entitled to your opinion.  But fan entitlement is a thing to behold, and so I feel some credentials are in order.   To conclude a clunky preamble, I say everything I say from a place of genuine love for the characters and their universe.

Thus, let it be known that the DC Comics movie experiment, that began in 2011 and which wrapped-up a decade later with Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom at the end of 2023, is done.

And that is to say, I did not love what DC did with its movies, starting with Man of Steel in 2013.   

Superman 2025: First Look at the Costume

For all posts discussing the new Superman movie, you can check out the Superman 2025 tag.

May 6th, 2024 - James Gunn, DC and Warner Bros. released the first look at Superman star David Corenswet in full Super regalia.  The movie isn't set to be released til July of 2025, so we've got a wait.

I've been blogging since before Superman Returns hit in 2006, followed many a Super reveals with that film, Man of Steel, the Supergirl TV series, Superman appearing on Supergirl, cartoons, etc...  and it's always weird to go back and see what I felt based on a single image.  

I'm too old to have the sheer excitement I felt when we got our first look at Brandon Routh in what will likely be one of the last Super-suits during my lifetime to echo the circus strongman look with tights and briefs.*  The image was meant to evoke a return to the greatness of the first two Christopher Reeve-starring movies, with a modern polish.  And it worked!  If you were going to try to stay semi-in-continuity with Reeve's Superman, he was a great choice.

It's Supergirl's Birthday - 65th Anniversary of Supergirl's First Appearance

Today marks the 65th Anniversary of the first appearance of Supergirl - or as us actual nerds know her, Kara Zor-El of Argo City, Krypton.  Yup, Supergirl hit newsstands on March 31, 1959!

Prior to Kara's arrival, DC had played with a few variations of what Supergirl might be - from giving Lois powers for an issue or two to a sorta magical helper friend for Clark for an issue.  But eventually DC just said "teen-age cousin" and a superhero was born.  

Created by Otto Binder and Al Plastino, Kara Zor-El appeared in Action Comics 252.  It's not an epically long story, mostly there to set the table for whatever they'd try next with the newest toy in the DC toybox.  Enough for an origin and a status quo set-up, and out.

And, I am happy to say, I do actually have a copy of this comic.

After about 20 years as the semi-sole-survivor of Krypton (minus Krypto, Beppo and a few stray villains in the Phantom Zone), we learn that a chunk of Krypton has been hurtling through space for decades, with the city of Argo attached.  Living in that city, Superman's Uncle and Aunt - Zor-El and Alura - have given birth to Kal-El's couson, Kara.  

As things go from "this seems bad" to "oh no" during a meteor storm threatening Argo City, Zor-El puts Kara in a rocket and shoots her at Earth.  Superman finds her, decides she's his new secret weapon and places the traumatized youth into an orphanage in Midvale.  Because he's a swinging bachelor and he has no time for kids, I guess.

Superman 2025: Climbing the Story Mountain and the Soft Application of Dunning-Kruger

You can follow along with this series under the label for Superman2025, a series of posts leading up to the release of WB's new movie in 2025.  All Superman posts since the start of this blog can be found under the Superman label.

With James Gunn's recent social media posts about the start of principle photography on Superman (2025), we now enter into one of the curious aspects of Superman as a character and property:

Everyone has an opinion

Folks have ideas about what the movie should and should not be.  They have bold ideas that haven't been tried before.  They have ideas about period settings, and what would *finally* make Superman click with a wide audience.  They have opinions about why Superman doesn't work for them, but *could* if they just did X.  Folks demand they not do an origin.  Or, they demand Superman dies.  And so on and so forth.

There are the occasional think-pieces and social-media threads arriving in various levels of provocativeness and consideration.  These are usually more focused on the characterization and actually worth glancing at as the writer is often someone working through a thought experiment of the challenge of writing for a guy who can bend steel with his pinky finger and melt a tank with a hard stare.  

One such thought-exercise which made the rounds this week was from writer Michael Chabon.

Post by @michael.chabon

View on Threads

The ideas thrown out there by social media users and the deeper thinking is welcome.  It's engagement.  It's people with feelings about one of the original superheroes and an American icon.  It's sometimes quality writers pondering the challenges of writing for a character who has been around since 1938 and which seems stuck in place - and so we want to throw an idea or three out there.

It's nice that we *want* to like Superman, and we are being helpful.

Let's Talk About the New Superman Movie - Superman 2025

So.

Let's talk about the new Superman movie happening over at WB.  I mean, eventually.  We'll start by talking about me and why I'm going to focus on just the one thing in a series of posts.  With DC moving into production on a new film, I'm thinking about talking about Superman again on a regular basis.  Y'all let me know if this content would be welcome or useful.

Despite the name, this site was never intended to be a Superman fan site - at least not entirely.  We started blogging back around 2003 over at League of Melbotis, when blogging was very different from what social media is today.  Heck, I don't think I'd even heard the term "fandom" when I started, and wouldn't for a few years. 

WB Animation Watch: Scooby-Doo and Krypto, Too! (2023)

Watched:  01/02/2024

Format:  Max

Viewing:  First

Director:  Cecilia Aranovich

Select:  Me

It's not to say Scooby-Doo and Krypto, Too! (2023) is particularly good - it has issues.  But it was better than I figured, which is possibly damning with faint praise.  Look, I'm just not a huge fan of Scooby-Doo, which is hurtful to Scooby-Doo fans, but here we are.  But I do find myself checking out some Scoob from time-to-time as they do these guest-starring movies, like the recent one with Elvira.  

As a DC Comics nut, it has a lot to love.  There's deep cut jokes exploiting a breadth of DC comics and animation history.  You'll maybe recognize bits from cartoons and movies, and you'll see items like Kandor.  Lex Luthor is a really funny supporting character here.  No notes.  I laughed.

Of course I'm a Krypto the Superdog fan, and he's in the movie, but he doesn't talk - which, look, Krypto hasn't had so much as thought-bubble in the comics since the 1970's.  But that's a bit limiting for a show with other talking dogs.  So it kinda sorta works, but.  Maybe a bit confusing?  Still, I'm just happy to see Krypto, so bonus points.

As an animation fan, it has some challenges.  My Scooby-Doo was made in the 1960's - 1980's, by the cheapest animation house outside of Filmation, so this looks like Star Wars by comparison.  But my in-house Scooby-Doo expert has assured me that they've done better by Mystery, Inc. in recent years, so I'll just agree with that.  But for someone expecting Scooby-Doo, Where Are You? style art and maybe Challenge of the Superfriends, it's... fine.  Really, it looks like the art in DC's Scooby-Doo and Batman comics that I pick up once in a blue moon if Krypto or someone shows up.   

There's some funny bits in the movie - there was a Velma's glasses bit that kills.  And I liked some of the gags about, like, the valet at the Hall of Justice.  But some of the old, worn out gags from Scooby-Doo are no fresher in 2024 than they were in 1984.  And there was no gag they couldn't stretch until you were like "I get it.  Enough."

And that included the finale "fight" that went on what seemed as long as any DC superhero movie ending - ie: way past the point where it wore out its welcome.  Which may have been a gag unto itself.  And, of course, any DC fan worth their salt could telegraph the ending twist.

I did have a couple of moments watching this cartoon that made me just sort of stare at DC over the past twenty years or so and want to ask "why do you make it so hard when this is so simple?"  Like, DC needs a Superfriends cartoon, or some version of the Justice League on Max or Cartoon Network, aimed at kids.  I know they have some marketing research that tells them "this is for people between 16 and 24", but that is *nonsense*.  They haven't even tried since I was in middle school.  And I'm old now.*

And seeing all the villains piled on Metropolis, which is treated as a gag, also made me realize why I don't give a shit about most DC events in the comics.   They aren't just the straight up Legion of Doom vs. Justice League match-up that wouldn't just feel like some wank-fest that will be meaningless to most readers.  

If they can make DC Comics work better in a Scooby-Doo cartoon - where the characters don't even really appear - than in most DC media, it may be time for a rethink.

*say what you will, but the 00's-era Justice League cartoon was airing at 7:00 at night.  That was not aimed at kids.  And they buried Justice League Action, which was great, at like 6:00 AM.  It was insane.

Holiday Watch: Santa Claus - The Movie (1985)

Watched:  12/8/2023

Format:  Amazon

Viewing:  First

Director: Jeannot Szward  

Even as a kid, when I saw the trailer for this movie and it looked a little suspicious to me. I don't know what it says that a kid pretty game for whatever looked at this and was like "nah", but I think that gut instinct was dead on.   I would have been 10 when this hit, so I wasn't really the audience, anyway - just old enough to not want to see "a kiddie movie", but it looked like schlock to me at that age, and I just had no interest.  

Apparently neither did Planet Earth, because the movie made about $23 million against an estimated budget between $30 and 50 million.

Flash forward to 2023, and we put this one on and a whole bunch of things became clear immediately.

Santa Claus: The Movie (1985) was produced by the Salkinds, the same shady guys who put together the first three Superman films and Supergirl.  They have their name up there first and foremost, so you know this is an Alexander Salkind joint.  And if you know anything about the Salkinds you know that if you're ethically a little shaky, these are your guys.  

Phyllis Coates Merges With the Infinite

Phyllis Coates, star of television and movies - and the second live-action Lois Lane, has passed.

Coates appeared only in the first season of The Adventures of Superman from 1952 and the film, Superman and the Mole Men.  

I am a fan of all Loises, and as part of the legion of Loises, Ms. Coates folds a special place here at The Signal Watch.  Her Lois was quite a bit different from Noel Neill's take.  Coates tended to play a bit more into the streetwise, tough newspaper writer persona that would circle back around with some other actors to play the part.  

She left pretty quickly, but one does not play Lois and not get included in the Superman mythos.  As is the tradition, she returned to a different incarnation of Superman, appearing on Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman in the first year as Lois' mother, Ellen Lane.

Of course, Coates was infinitely more than her brief Superman appearances.  She has 145 appearances listed on IMDB, and spanned 50 years in the business (including a lengthy break).  

Let's salute Ms. Coates and remember her for being a terrific part of the Superman legacy!

PodCast 253: "Justice League: The New Frontier" (2008) - SimonCanada and Ryan talk Comic Book Movies

Watched:  09/09/2023  

Format:  Max

Viewing:  Unknown.  Probably fourth 

Decade:  2000's

Director:  Dave Bullock

For more ways to listen

An all-new Simon from an all-new nation joints us on an all new frontier! We talk a 2000's-era comic and animated superhero classic. Join us as we jump back to a different era to look toward a better superhero tomorrow!

SoundCloud 

The Signal Watch PodCast · 253: "Justice League: The New Frontier" (2008) - SimonCanada and Ryan talk Comic Book Movies

YouTube

Music:

The Flash Theme - Kevin Manthei, Justice League: New Frontier Soundtrack 

Green Lantern Theme - Kevin Manthei, Justice League: New Frontier Soundtrack 

Playlist: DC Comics and Movies 

The Signal Watch PodCast · DC Cinema and TV

Watch Party Watch: Superman IV: The Quest for Peace (1987)

Watched:  04/21/2023

Format:  Amazon Watch Party

Viewing:  Unknown

Director:  Sidney J Furie

I won't get into why we did this, but we did do it as a watch party, and I think folks enjoyed the experience if not the film. 

But here at The Signal Watch we also recently podcasted the film, so if you didn't listen to the episode then (and it's pretty good, if I say so myself), now is a great opportunity to hear three dudes who know a lot about Superman stuff talk about the movie.  

SoundCloud

The Signal Watch PodCast · 233: "Superman IV: The Quest for Peace" (1987) - A KTB PodCast w/ Danny, Stuart and Ryan

YouTube

Friday Watch Party: Superman IV - The Quest for Peace

cool job, but you left two behind, Clark

Earlier this week we saw the 85th anniversary of the first appearance of Superman and Lois Lane in print in the famed Action Comics #1.  It's a great comic, and Superman has had many great stories to tell over the years.

This is probably not one of them.

Starting from a promising set-up, the movie is plagued with budgetary issues that impact everything along the way.  It has its highlights, but...  yeah.

Join us as we leap a good decision in a single bound, and behold:  Superman's apartment and its curious decor!  Lenny Luthor!  Lex's goofy scheme to infinite wealth!  A literal Chippendale's dancer as our super-powered meanie/ horn-dog!  

It's the movie that killed a franchise and set Superman back 20 years at the cinema!

Day:  Friday 04/21/2023

Time:  8:30 Central/ 6:30 Pacific

Cost:  $3

Runtime:  90 minutes

CLICK HERE TO THROW THE GLOBAL BALANCE OF POWER OUT OF WHACK

(link live ten minutes before showtime)

Superman and Lois at 85

April 18th marks the 85th anniversary of the release of Action Comics #1.  This comic includes the first published story of Superman and Lois Lane.  

Originally, Superman was imagined as an unstoppable force for good and a champion of the oppressed.  This hasn't fundamentally changed, but the scope and scale at which Superman operates in comics and film has expanded to include liberating whole planets and more nuanced takes on what a man of steel can do and not be painted as a villain by the general public. 

In many ways, Superman is a combination of traits borrowed from existing popular fiction.  Doc Savage had a Fortress of Solitude, The Shadow had dual identities to fight crime, Zorro was out there swashbuckling and in a love triangle of which he was two sides.  John Carter of Mars was an alien on Mars whose origins on Earth made him super-human elsewhere.

Superheroes Every Day Watch: Man of Steel (2013) - Part 1C

Danny of Superheroes Every Day has launched a PodCast!  And we're the first guest!  

In this installment (3 of 3) we discuss the third, incredibly tedious and somewhat horrific act of a movie wherein a superhero debuts and immediately decides cataclysmic collateral damage is no big whoop while he fights his daddy's pal.  

Spotify:

Listen to Part 1A

Listen to Part 1B

Here's Part 1 C (you can always listen on Spotify or other providers):

YouTube:

Listen to Part 1A

Listen to Part 1B

Superheroes Every Day Watch: Man of Steel (2013) - Part 1B

Danny of Superheroes Every Day has launched a PodCast!  And we're the first guest!  In this installment (2 of 3) we discuss the second act of 2013's, uh... uneven Super-film, Man of Steel.  

Listen to Part 1A

Here's Part 1 B (you can also listen on Spotify or other providers):